Mike
Guest
00:01
Pain is something I'm very, very familiar with. I think we all are as humans. I mean pain. What is that? The opposite of happiness. They're almost the same emotion, but just on different sides of the spectrum, and you raise a really good point. We're not alone in this, however. I thought I was alone for most of my life. I thought a lot of the experiences that I had growing up especially, I was the only person going through that. I didn't really have anyone to talk to, I didn't really have a support system. I was kind of by myself for the first I don't know, you know, 20, 25 years of my life. 

Ali
Host
00:50
Hello and welcome to the Ally Show. My name is Ali Eslamifar and I'm your host for the show. We are in our episode number four, where we are chatting with Mike Nauls. I originally met Mike during a management training program at Hired. We both used to work there and we kept a friendship and conversation. We both used to work there and we kept a friendship and conversations even after that. 

01:21
Today's conversation has been recorded about three months ago and as I was editing this episode, I really wanted to start this conversation with thanking Mike. This very friendly conversation really helped me to unlock a couple of things. The fact that I've been going back and forth a lot with like different therapists and really seeing and getting the push from Mike in this conversation about how therapy has been helping him gave me another boost to take therapy even more seriously. And two, because he, as we will talk in this episode, he is a gym expert and his encouragement about taking gym seriously got me into even take the gym activity that I was already doing more seriously and I've been actually so happy with my life these days as I was able to also like keep that commitment about continuously going to do some gym activity. So this all goes to say thank you, mike, for really showing up in this episode and having this amazing conversation with us. During this conversation, we talk with Mike about his story of pain around a physical experience he had while he was playing soccer professionally and how he came back from that experience. If this is a story is a sensitive topic to you, please skip this episode and we hope to see you in our other episodes on the ally show. Also, if you're suffering from any mental health issues, please contact your medical or mental health experts. 

03:09
Mike is a revenue operation expert by day. He has a master from Duke University in engineering management. He's also a former professional soccer player, which will hear more about it in our episode. Mike has been on a journey towards better mental health for the past year. He has been using health, fitness, soccer, entrepreneurship, meditation and personal finance as a way to better connect with his mind and body. Mike's accountability campaign is about doing a physical activity on a daily basis. The links to that campaign is in our show notes. Now, without further ado, let's start this conversation with Mike. We're live, hello, hello. Thank you so much, mike, for joining us. Welcome to the ally show today. We have Mike Nauls with us, if I pronounce your last name correctly

Mike
Guest
04:12
better than a lot of a lot of pronunciations. 

Ali
Host
04:16
I've heard, had to do my homework man well. Thank you so much for joining. I know Mike from Hired. It's interesting. We met in this management training program. He was on the sales and revenue side of the award and I was on the product, but we met there for the first time and we actually started talking about things completely non-work related, one being mental health. So today we have the honor to have Mike with us. Thank you for joining and let's do this and I'll pass it to you to have your introduction. 

Mike
Guest
04:54
However, you want it cool. I'm excited. The honor is mine, by the way. Hey, everybody, I'm Mike. Like Ali said, we met through work and we just got to know each other. We didn't really talk about work stuff too much, it was just stuff outside of work, just life and how we've been, and you know what we've been up to, what we like doing, etc. So I'm happy to be here to give you an intro myself, to give you the backstory of where I come from. 

05:25
My story doesn't start in America, it actually starts outside of America. So my mom, she is an immigrant from Lebanon. She came to America in the 90s. There was a big civil war going on at the time, a lot of just chaos, upheaval, and she decided to come to Washington DC with her entire family, her siblings, her mom. They all came together to the states for a better life. And my dad came from another part of the world, from Bolivia, of all places, to America. You know not bad things are going on at the time there hyperinflation, I mean political instability, you name it. So he came over with his siblings, his parents, to America for a better life and in 1995 I came out the womb. That's where my story begins. 

06:33
I grew up in the Washington DC area, in the suburbs in Fairfax County. I had a pretty normal life growing up. I would say I have a younger brother. You know I played soccer when I was a kid. I had some friends growing up, even though my parents might have not had all the money in the world. It never seemed that way to me. I always ate, I always had clothes. You know we were always doing things with the. You know the extended family, my cousins, my aunts, uncles. So it was a pretty normal life growing up. I would say we did our best. I ended up playing soccer super competitively. I mean I used to travel at least every other weekend, maybe once a month, to different states for tournaments. I even played in Spain. I went to Spain to travel for 10 days Spain and Portugal to play in a soccer tournament. So a lot of my teammates now, or my ex teammates, they either play professionally right now or they played at very big d1 schools. I ended up getting injured and I can get more into that. So I never really got to live out my dreams back then. So the soccer thing didn't work out. 

08:01
I ended up going to undergrad at a very, very small school in Ohio called Marietta College, I studied. Of all the things you can study, I probably chose the most random thing. I studied a petroleum engineering super out there. I don't even do that in my line of work, I don't. I'm not even in that industry. So I studied that for four years. I played soccer there uh, it was a d3 school. I played soccer, um, and then I graduated four years later. 

08:39
I didn't know what I wanted to do in life. I don't think the oil and gas industry was. It was in a really bad spot back then. I mean, people were getting laid off, there were no jobs. I couldn't even find an internship while I was in school, so it was tough. That made me decide to go to grad school. 

09:00
So I spent a year at Duke doing a program for engineering students and ex-engineers who wanted to get into business. So I did that for a year. I met some really great people there and I ended up going to a startup when I graduated and this was a very early, you know like seed stage startup. It was actually a German based company that had everybody was pretty much in Europe, in Germany that had a few people in the United States. Um, that was my first job. Uh, it was a grind. I mean, it was a startup. I mean you had a where so many different hats. I liked it at first because it was so entrepreneurial. Um, my family, like a lot of them, they own businesses. So my mom has her own business, my cousins do, some of my aunts and uncles do so. For me, like it just felt so natural. 

10:04
But then I kept working, I kept grinding over the next few years and I had my, just my drive, my purpose kind of dwindled, I would say, over time. I ended up getting so burned out working in tech over the past four and a half years that I don't know. I didn't really know what I wanted to do in life. It came to a point where I just didn't really want to keep working in tech because it just wasn't making me happy, it wasn't giving me any purpose, it wasn't fulfilling me at all. So I'm taking some time off right now. It's been good. I've been in the gym, I've been really working on my, my fitness, my, my diet. I've been playing soccer again, reconnecting with friends, spending time with them, reconnecting with my faith, spending time with my, my family, more understanding or like really trying to figure out what I want to do in life. So it's been a roller coaster and like happy to dive into those points, man, like I'm happy to be here thank you, mike. 

Ali
Host
11:22
No, this this was a great intro and I relate to this story in too many ways. First of all, immigrants family hey, high-five also. I know for little, we spoke a little bit Arabic, that I know last meetings, and then it's, it's also like very interesting the way that your story I don't want to ruin too much of the soccer story, but even further down the road, like going to petroleum engineering program and then not really feeling it in the end going to business, trying to really make it your own way, trying tech for a few years and now rethinking the whole thing like that's the story of my life as well, like I really connect to it. 

12:15
There are some interesting points. I'm trying to understand how you think about like all these changes, like in perspective. Now, after many years observing this, how does it feel like like just standing right here seeing and looking at your journey? How does it feel like it's overwhelming. 

Mike
Guest
12:36
I mean it's a lot. It's like I'd be like this tough man. You just you don't realize that when you're growing up, when you're a kid, even when you're in school, even your first few years working on a corporate job, I mean you don't realize all the ups and downs you've been through. Man, I've been through a lot of pain, a lot of through happiness. 

12:57
I mean it's just like a roller coaster, like you said, so many ups but so many downs, and whatever comes up must come down, and then whatever is down I mean the only way is up. So it's just, it's like that. It's gonna be like that for the rest of my life. You know I'm gonna have so many ups but I'm also gonna have a lot of downs. So it's it's a lot. It's it's easier talking about it with people and talking through it and just being very reflective of your experiences, just really thinking about it and just I don't know, just being very self-aware of what's happened in your life and understanding it's fine that you've been through all the stuff, because everyone has. I mean that's part of being human. I mean you go through so many different emotions. It's a roller coaster ride this life that we live, man. 

Ali
Host
13:54
It came up a couple of times in our previous discussions too. 

13:58
It's like when there is diff, when you see it down like, when you feel that like okay, today, or like this is stage of the life I'm at, like is the downest it can be, at that exact moment you only see up, like you admitting that, okay, the reality is this moment or this situation is not okay and this it's painful, like that understanding, in that that observation boosts your awareness at the same time that okay, things are not good, how to survive it and how to take a really good next step to fix things or to be okay with the situation. 

14:37
And just being okay with that situation takes you places. So it's really interesting it and I really also like admire the fact that you're such open person with your stories and just talking, and I think this it's really important to have people like you in our communities, to be honest, because more people need to talk, more people need to speak up and just speak up their stories, because this is opening up a space for everyone else to also know that they can speak up and they're not alone, like that fact that they're not alone. 

15:14
This is the main reason that this show exists to tell people that we are all in it together. So I love that without, without saying too much. There, I want to switch the gears and kind of like go deeper into your story and your relationship with pain and mental health, and I'm gonna pass it back to you again pain is something I'm very, very familiar with. 

Mike
Guest
15:49
I think we all are as humans. I mean pain. What is that? The opposite of happiness. You know, they're very, they're very, very related. They're almost the same emotion, but just on different sides of the spectrum, and you raise a really good point. We're not alone in this, however. I thought I was alone for most of my life. I thought a lot of the experiences that I had growing up especially, I was the only person going through that I didn't really have anyone to talk to, I didn't really have a support system. I was kind of by myself. For the first, I don't know, you know 20, 25 years of my life. So I think my first real experience of pain where that comes from? 

16:39
Back when I was so to set the stage, back when I was, you know, at middle school, I was 12, 13, 14. I used to play soccer, I mean extremely competitively. It didn't start out like that, I used to just play for fun, but then I joined a travel team and we ended up playing against other teams in the area. It progressed to playing against other teams in other states. It even progressed to playing teams internationally in Mexico, canada. I even was spent, you know, like 10 days in Spain and Portugal playing against other teams. So I was really serious about soccer. I mean, that was my life. Every day I'd be thinking about soccer. I'm in school, I'm doing something. Soccer is on my mind like I'm watching it on TV, I'm talking to talking about it with friends. I'm thinking about it like I'm practicing, I'm training, you know, for five days a week with my team. I have games every weekend like that was my life. That was all that I was good at. That was seriously the thing that kept me going when I was younger, when I was a teen, because I wasn't the best at school, I wasn't the best socially, I didn't really have that many hobbies outside of soccer. That was pretty much my life. So it was all I had at the time. 

18:12
And when I was around 15, I started feeling some kind of discomfort in my lower legs. Whenever I'd run I'd feel my legs really tighten up and they'd get super stiff and I I thought at first it was, I don't know, like shin splints. It was cramps in my muscles. I thought it was something that was not that serious. I thought it was a normal thing at first. But it turns out, you know, I kept playing through that pain and eventually it got to the point where I would run for five minutes in a game and my legs they would swell up so bad to the point where they became rocks and I couldn't run. After five minutes I had to sit down and I couldn't do anything. 

19:09
It turns out, you know, I went to a lot of doctors. It turns out that I had compartment syndrome in my lower legs. So normally you have some kind of, you have tissue there that expands during exercise to allow for blood flow, oxygen. You know all the normal, the good stuff that needs to happen. But when you have compartment syndrome, that tissue is so rigid it doesn't allow for any blood flow or oxygen. So the legs they get really stiff and you can't exercise, you can't do anything. 

19:44
So I had that happen to me when I was 15 and I had plans to, you know, want to go pro one day, play at a very big D1 school. A lot of my teammates, they my ex teammates they play or have played professionally in the States, overseas, in Europe. I have, I mean, so many of my friends. They I mean almost all of them have played at at big D1 schools even, and I couldn't do any of that. I never had the chance to when I was 15, I mean, I had that from 15 to 18. I still have it. 

20:24
It's very mild now, but it really messed me up. I felt really alone at the time. I didn't really have much support. My parents, they weren't really there. I mean their immigrant parents. You know they're not the best with emotions, you know they're not the best with that kind of stuff, so they were very distant. I didn't really have many friends at all who I could talk to or who could relate to what I was going through. It was really just me myself and I, and probably my dog, you know like. My dog was always there, which is why I love him so much. He was one of the few people that were there during that time. 

21:15
I mean, it was so hard because it was the one thing I loved doing and all of a sudden I couldn't do it anymore. I even had a surgery done. I saw at least a dozen doctors. Some of them actually told me that there's no chance you're ever gonna play soccer again, especially competitively. You're not gonna go to college and play soccer. I spent so many hours doing physical therapy, going, you know, getting my legs massage, thinking that you know this, all this stuff was gonna help, but it none of it helped. None of it helped and it was so random. Just I kept, you know, I won't. 

22:03
When I kind of gave up my senior year of high school I mean I was 18 I essentially I did give up. I think a lot of me gave up. I quit my travel soccer team because I wasn't really playing in the games. I there was no point. I kind of stopped playing soccer for a few months. I went from playing every day to just not playing at all. I quit for a few months and I mean randomly, like I don't know why, but I had this urge to to say, nah, you know, I'm not gonna, I can't, I can't, like I'm gonna regret this if I, if I end up quitting, I can't just quit. So, day by day, I would just push myself and I would go to, you know, a soccer field by myself, I would do sprints, I would play with the ball, I would do all these drills that I used to do and I would just, each day, each week, I could do more and more and more without my legs hurting, and it got to a point where I could actually start playing in games. Now I wasn't a hundred percent, I was maybe like 50 60%, but for me that was good enough. I could actually play, which is why I wanted that so bad. So I ended up playing my senior year in high school and I ended up playing D3 soccer. I played in college for a few years. I not only played, I was, I started most of the games in the season. I was a very I was doing very well for myself, you know. 

23:46
But I mean it was tough. I mean that those three years from 815 to 18 not being able to play soccer, just going through all that stuff by myself, that really I mean that shook me, that messed me up so bad emotionally. I didn't really have anyone there. That was my first, I think, real taste of real excruciating rock bottom pain that I've felt in my life. I still feel that pain from back then to this very day. 

24:22
I mean it. If for a kid, for 15, 16 year old, to go through that it's. I mean it changes your life. I mean it made me mature so much. It gave me a different perspective on life. It made me appreciate things a lot more as a kid. So I mean, that was my first real experience of pain, man, that's the first. You know. The first scar, I think, is the the deepest, because I still think about those days. Some days I do. I do, you know, I still talk to people about it, my therapist, you know, I still. It comes up day to day, some days, no, not much, but other days it does, it can really just it brings me back to that pain and it just it hurts, you know. 

Ali
Host
25:30
As we grow up, we become more aware of the possibility that we can be hurt physically and we are going to lose some of our abilities when we are at this age, or we can, we cannot be as fast when we are running when we are at this Like. There are some like default, at least known. I'm not going to say fact because I've seen like seven-year-old folks like running so fast and I'm amazed by it. But there are things that we are more accepting of them and there's less expectation of our body, whereas for you as a kid, like 15-year-old, like it's like as At that age, you will run as fast as you can. In your life I was a runner too, I was also like on the soccer team. 

26:20
I know exactly those days. 

26:22
Like you know, you're running the fastest in your life and for you and that highlight of your age. Dealing with that, I cannot even imagine how it's been. And then the story. I think the story of you coming back to the field is very encouraging and I want to go back to that urge and where that came from. But before that, I think it would be a miss if I don't ask you like all that pain, all that emotional pain that came from that story, how did you deal with it and how did you over the last few years? You're saying that you're still even going to therapy and talking to that, talking about those stories, I'm wondering, like, how could you manage that pain over the years and how it's been so far? 

Mike
Guest
27:13
You know, looking back at it now, I did not do a good job managing all that pain and trauma throughout the past 10, 12 years of my life. I, what I did was I bottled all that pain and trauma up. I put it in a box and that box was, you know, mostly shut but just like a little bit part of it was open, just by, like a little bit. And that little bit of openness I think it seeped into my life throughout the last 10 years, you know, into my adulthood, into the present day. It just it wasn't a good impact. Obviously. You know it impacted me negatively. Having bottled it up, I mean I was very resentful. I was never fully happy. There was always some sense of regret, anger, frustration, all these negative emotions. They seeped into my life and I carried those emotions with me through all my relationships, through my professional work, my hobbies. You know my personality. Really it wasn't until the past year, maybe two years or so, that I really started dealing with all these emotions. And I mean over the past 10 years I've picked up so many additional traumas and so much more pain that it all just kept piling up. It just kept piling up. The box was full Like the box could not hold the oldest pain and trauma anymore. The lid just completely shattered, it exploded at some point. 

29:14
It wasn't until the past year that I really started healing and getting better. I think a lot of it had to do with finally going to see a therapist about it and talking through it with someone who was willing to listen, who was willing to be there and really just being conscious and being reflective of all the pain that I've gone through and not just ignoring it and bottling it all up, pretty much just going, picking up the box, opening up the box and going through all of it, everything inside the box, one by one, day by day, and just making sense of all of it and finally confronting it. I think I think that's how I've been able to really go through all this pain and still be okay and still kind of push myself and try to be the best version of myself, just confronting it, going through therapy, being so open. You made a point earlier. You thanked me for being so open and being willing to share my experiences. 

30:30
I think 10 years ago or even five years ago, I probably wouldn't have been doing this, so it just goes to show how much I've changed and how much I've grown and my mindset, my perspective has shifted so much because of the pain. I mean the pain is starting to go away. I can say that very confidently because I'm dealing with it now and I've got people like yourself, the audience, I've got therapists, I've got friends, I have family. I can talk through this stuff openly. So it's for me, man, that's the best way to deal with it. I think, just being open, putting yourself out there and just confronting it. 

Ali
Host
31:12
That's very amazing to hear that last year has been the year for you to go deeper. It takes time, it takes a lot of the effort that you called out like just being open, taking the step, whether it's by going to the therapy or by being open to your trusted friends or not necessarily friends trusted people who would be willing to listen to your stories, this process of saying things and sharing our stories and hearing them back. I know, of course, I'm not the psychology expert here and the psychology expert might be telling me yes, we told you that. But the reality is it's consistently to me the best way to realize where I'm standing in life, realize where I can do better, even if, at the same time that I'm sharing my story, I have a lot of insecurities coming in with all that uncomfortableness. There is still a lot to gain from it. 

32:20
This is a piece I really take from this part of what you said that openness. We have to take that a step and we cannot just sit back. If we feel that we are sitting back, it's okay. Maybe there is a time for it, but let's be also hopeful that that day is coming that we should prep ourselves to open up, find those allies in our lives that can start listening to us, pushing us through the path, that we can be listened to. Where do you think that urge came from? In your story you mentioned at 18, there was that urge coming of. You started going back to the field by yourself. I could just visualize it and I feel like that's a very interesting part of your story. I want to know more about it. 

Mike
Guest
33:15
At that point, man, the courage, I don't know where it came from. I have some ideas of where it came from, but I remember when I was 18, when I had given up soccer I hadn't played in a few months, you know and I remember I used to wake up at 6am on some weekends and I would just go to the field, by my house, by myself. I'd have my cleats with me, a few water bottles, some cones and a soccer ball and that was it. I did that. I. Probably anyone would have told you anyone. Doctors have told me it's not going to happen, it's not going to work, but I still did it. 

34:02
I think that a lot of that courage that probably comes from my parents. I would say subconsciously. I did not have the best relationship with them growing up, not at all. I have a much better relationship with them right now, but as a kid I did not. But subconsciously, I think, I picked up a lot of the lessons and a lot of the experiences they had. I mean, coming to a new country with no money, they didn't really even speak the language, they didn't have any connections. I think, just knowing that they did that and they worked jobs that they probably hated, they didn't want to do. You know they probably didn't want to clean houses, they probably didn't want to work on cars. You know they probably had better plans for them themselves and their lives. So I think, just knowing that, just knowing that they, they, they pushed through it, they did it. 

35:04
I think that gave me the courage To do the same in my life, because it was very irrational, it didn't make any sense. You know, doctors told me you know it's not gonna work, it's not gonna happen. I even told myself you know it's not gonna work, it's not gonna, it's not gonna happen. But I did find that courage and I'm glad I I did it because you know, I ended up playing soccer in college. I ended up getting back to it and I'm just happy, I gave it the shot. But it all comes From deep down inside. I think you know like you need to just take a chance. I mean, what's the worst that can happen? It doesn't work out, you know it's. It's fine as long as I give it my best. 

Ali
Host
35:56
If I give it my best shot, then I'm fine with the outcome that's so Encouraging and it it feels so real and maybe that's why I was like Really curious what's the motivation behind it? It's very interesting that those moments in our lives it happens a lot like we have we have those moments where you gotta give it up. That's it. 

36:21
Yeah, but and it happens to a lot of us, oh yeah, but there are moments where you can say you just need to just push it One more time and suddenly things happen. Just just knock that door one more time yes, of course, like it could hurt your body and we are sitting here after the fact, we were like praising you for it like it could hurt your body, it could go one way or another. But I think, like taking that shot, being confident that and I think that's subconscious Moment that you mentioned like being confident that you know what my parent went through probably Something as bad as this or as hurtful as this, maybe I can go oh, how is life right now? Like, just, if we want to kind of like see, you started from that soccer story Now you mentioned, in the past year you've been trying to kind of like to do therapy through, like having been more aware of yourself, just curious how's life right now and where do you, where do you see yourself going from here? 

Mike
Guest
38:04
Yeah, life, I mean especially in the past few months, has been pretty tough. I did hit that rock bottom back when I was 15, 16, but I think with life I mean it's a roller coaster, right. You hit rock bottom and the only way is up. So you go up. Maybe it's like all curved and slopey, but I mean, for the past 10 years my life was consistently going up in a straight line. Until the past few months, I would say, my girl and I were together for 9.5 years and we ended up splitting up. 

38:51
I was at the heaviest I had been in my entire life. I was not happy with how I looked. I was not happy with myself image. I hated how I looked in the mirror. 

39:09
I had a bad relationship with food. You know I saw food as something you eat to enjoy all the time and you kind of like try to conquer it. You know you use it to kind of fill the gaps in your life. I was working a job that didn't fire me up, it did not get me excited. I was just going through the motions each day. I mean there was no purpose in my life. I felt like I didn't know what my purpose was, at least a few months ago. All of it just I mean at one time losing your job, losing your relationship, not feeling good about yourself, like all these things just happened at one time. And I hit rock bottom a couple months ago for the second time in my life. So I don't think you hit it just one time, I think you hit it multiple times. I'll probably hit it again and again and again down the road. I'm sure I will, but I mean I've the good thing about hitting rock bottom is the only way is up. 

40:24
So over the past few months I've slowly been building myself back up. I mean I'm getting to a point where I'm almost in the best shape of my life. I like how I look. I have a much better relationship with food. I've reconnected with my spiritual side that I haven't really connected with in over 10 years. I've got a much better relationship with my parents. I've been going to therapy consistently every week. 

41:01
I've been trying to pick up new hobbies. I'm picking up old ones again, like soccer. I've been playing in a soccer league with friends. I'm even thinking about doing like Muay Thai or MMA a few times a month, pushing myself, you know, like really putting myself out there and just thinking about what I want to do, I think going all the way back to when I first started working my first job at a startup. I did it because I thought I was entrepreneurial. You know, it was in my blood. My mom runs her own business. Aunts, uncles, cousins, they all do it. 

41:47
So I've really been thinking about what I want to do in life and I think I know now that I do want to start my own business, or my own businesses with friends, with family, or just doing it my own way and just being my own boss. I think that's really what I want to do in life. I'm still figuring it out. I don't really know what that looks like. I have some ideas but it's not like fully fleshed out yet. So I mean I've got my whole life to figure that out, but I think that's what really gets me going and what gives me so much passion just building stuff with my own hands, being my own boss and living my own life. 

42:31
And additionally, you know, I think what's really helped me, or the past new months to a year, has been just financial literacy. I would say I've been very savvy with investing a lot of my income, saving a lot of my income. Being very smart about my spending habits. That's allowed me to just not worry so much about money, because I think a lot of stress comes from money for everybody. You're gonna stress so much when your kind of basic needs aren't met If you're worrying about, oh, am I gonna have enough money to pay rent? Am I gonna have enough money to sustain myself if I get laid off? 

43:21
You know, I got laid off a month and a half ago and I'm fine because I've built so many good habits with money, so I wanna keep doing that. I want to get to a point where I'm financially independent so I can have a choice where money is not really too much of an issue. I can really just focus on being spiritual and doing things that I'm passionate about. So it's been a roller coaster ride. I hit rock bottom again, but I'm slowly working my way up and I know for a fact it's not gonna be the last time I hit rock bottom. I know that. So I'm cherishing the good moments that I'm starting to have right now, knowing that at a point in time in my life it's gonna come crashing down again. That's just how life works. So I'm really appreciating everything that's been in my life and all the experiences I've had over the past few months, man. 

Ali
Host
44:22
Lesson learned from the market man Speaking the financial language I love and, by the way, thank you for all the details in this that you shared. I wanna highlight a few points. What you mentioned about like we're gonna keep hitting the rock bottom over and over, Like just accepting that. I think it just brings such peace in my head. Like every time I'm like at a bottom point of my life I'm like, yep, it's one of those. It's gonna go up again, it's gonna come down again and this is it, this is life, this is how we keep learning. 

45:01
For me, Of course, there are tough moments. I'm not going to dismiss those important rough moments in everyone's lives, but it's interesting to look at it this way. Two, for those who don't see Mike like those big muscle guns I can attest like he's in amazing shape right now and like before this call event, I'm like dude, like what are you doing? Give me your program. I try to show off, but I'm like no way I can compete with this guy. 

45:30
Like it's really amazing to see, like how you've been able to change your relationship with your body, which seems to be, and just observing your stories and hearing your stories, you are the workout dude. Like you are someone who has a good relationship, or who should have a very good relationship, with his body. You're such an amazing soccer player you do very well. You told me like you lost a lot of weight during the past four months and sounds like you're even trying to gain more athletic expertise, which is very unique. And then the third point I think is really interesting what you said about financial stability, which doesn't come from working hard necessarily. 

46:17
It comes from really having a plan, having a thought, knowing that, how much money do I really need to be just doing what I'm doing all these days and stay healthy, stay happy? Do I really need to work this many hours, like, and that's how I'm like, why do I need to work in tech? Do I really need to work like 12 hours, 15 hours a day to just get paycheck one after another and I still don't own anything, like do I? 

46:46
really need to do that. I can maybe lower my expectations, save some money here and there, and that financial stability and financial plans in mind, it's really interesting. I'm curious actually. I really don't know if you have something like this, but I'm curious if you summarize all your learnings or if you're offering any consulting or anything for folks who are listening, in case if they wanna reach out. 

Mike
Guest
47:14
You. 

Ali
Host
47:15
I should, though, right Like I am client number one. If you don't, I'm client number one. 

Mike
Guest
47:22
That's the beauty, I think, of just trying to figure out what you wanna do and just pushing yourself, because, yes, I've built all these habits. I've kind of built these experiences. I have like a decent resume. If I want it to be like a content creator or help people out or start my own podcast, like even you are like, I had that option. 

Ali
Host
47:49
So you mentioned you're going through a lot of it right now. What are some of your routines to keep your mental health up in general? 

Mike
Guest
48:02
Yeah, man, I've been doing a lot to try to keep my mental health just as healthy as possible. I think the biggest thing is just establishing a routine with therapy. Every week I'm booking a session a week in advance so I know exactly when that session's happening, what time. So it's just there. I don't really have to think about it. I'm just booking the next one a week from now. So that's been really good for me, having goals. 

48:38
I think if you set specific time-bound goals for yourself, it really pushes you and motivates you to just pick yourself up, even if you're going through a lot of bad stuff in your life. For me, for example, four months ago, when I felt terrible about myself and I was at the heaviest in my life, I set a goal I want to be X number of pounds by X month. Like that really pushed me because, first of all, I had a goal in mind. It's a tangible goal. I weigh myself every day. I see what I weigh on average per week, how that's trending over time, I can measure it, I know where I need to get to and I have a deadline to achieve a buy. So that just pushes me. I mean that is informing all the decisions I've been making. If I want to eat out really bad, I have an urge to just eat fried chicken or something. I tell myself, well, my goal is, and I just I don't do it because that's not going to help me get to my goal. So that I mean, if you can set goals like that, it just keeps you busy, it keeps your mind kind of away from all the negative. But also I mean take time to reflect on all the negative and what's been happening with you. I mean I've been starting to meditate a little bit at nighttime before I go to bed. 

50:11
I think that's just been really good for me, just being so caught up in the present, just being in tune with the present. I think that's really helped, because sometimes my mind will not. Sometimes a lot of the time my mind drifts into the past and into the future. I mean the past, it's already kind of done, it's existed, it doesn't exist anymore. The future is just a figment of your imagination. It doesn't even exist. So I mean all we have is the present. 

50:46
And if I can find ways to just get more in tune with the present, I feel like I do better mentally, like playing soccer in a league. When I'm playing soccer, I'm not thinking about anything else. I'm so in the present. Even with the gym, when I'm doing a workout, I'm so in the present, I'm not thinking about anything else. When I'm meditating, I'm in the present. When I'm with friends, I'm in the present. I mean, it's just finding ways to just be in the present. I think that's what's really helped me the most and that's what's given me more of a good routine to push through. I think that's amazing. 

Ali
Host
51:25
It feels like you learn how to be mindful and you're applying it in any situation, whether it's playing soccer, being with friends and, of course, when you're doing meditation, which is all mindfulness, at least the goal of it. It feels like it's such a liberating moment when you know you have that, when you know you've been able to be mindful with your friends, when you're even hanging out with them, drinking something, having a dinner, like just talking, like living the moment with them rather than trying to worry about what's going to happen to the market, what happened in the past, how much loss I had here or what happened to my relationship, like really living the moment and learning how to be mindful. That's a skill, and how do you see the relationship of that with how you dealt with your relationship, with your pain? Do you see any dots? I'm not trying to force a dot. I'm wondering if you see anything. 

Mike
Guest
52:35
I think being more mindful for me I mean at least has helped me process that pain and not box it up and bottle it up, so it's seeping into your everyday life. I think being mindful has really forced me to confront the pain and make me realize it's OK to be hurt. We're all going to be hurt. Like I said, I'm going to hit rock bottom again, maybe in a year, maybe in a few years, maybe in 10, 20 years. I'm going to hit it again at some point. But being mindful and just living in the present has really allowed me to just cherish every single moment and every single experience in my life so I can enjoy it right now Because I know in the future I'm going to go through hell again. I'm going to, I mean, it's just a fact. So just being mindful has really helped me process the pain and really kind of like prepare for the pain almost just by appreciating everything in my life like right this, second, right now. 

Ali
Host
53:49
Here is one thing we are asking all of our guests to be an accountability partnership for five of our listeners. And if you want to pick an activity to do with five of our listeners for 30 days it can be daily, it can be weekly which activity would you do with them to keep your mental health and their mental health up? 

Mike
Guest
54:19
Yeah, man, really that's amazing that you're doing that. It's not just a podcast you're doing, but you're doing. You're actually allowing people to connect and hold each other accountable. I love that. I'm so down for that. I go to the gym, I lift weights, maybe four to five times a week for about like an hour 50 minutes, and then I'm doing cardio to lose a lot of the fat. It is not even like you don't even have to be a runner, you don't have to be super athletic. I'm just walking Seriously, like walking is the best exercise. I've been walking like 10,000 steps a day at least, sometimes like 15 or 20,000. If I have extra time and motivation. I'd be down to hold others accountable if they're trying to change their lifestyle, if they're trying to get more fit, if they're trying to lose weight, like I can definitely hold other people accountable for that. I'm holding myself accountable. So Awesome. 

Ali
Host
55:19
So we are holding you accountable to hold five people accountable to do physical activity per day, mainly gym activities or running, if they want to join you, even for walking. That's going to be for the duration of 30 days. Let's see if we can build some new lovely routines together with Mike. Any final thoughts? Anything you want to share with the audience? I would love to hear that before we close. 

Mike
Guest
55:53
Yeah, thanks for having me. By the way, I would not have done this 10 years ago or even five years ago. I used to be very, very closed off to everybody, including myself. But I've, throughout the past year especially I mean just doing therapy, having friends, setting goals for myself, understanding what I want to do in life, really thinking about it it's really helped me so much. 

56:21
So I mean you're not alone. That's the message I would say. I thought I was alone for most of my life. It turns out I am not. I mean we barely know each other, but like you are someone I can confide in, you know, like we have that level of trust and we can hold each other accountable and we just connect so well. If I can do that with you, man, I can do that with so many other people. I know other people are having the same experiences I am that you're having. We have so many shared experiences and emotions as humans. So I mean you're not alone. I think that's my main message. Just I'm here, You're here, so many people are there for you. So just don't be shy, Open yourself up. You never know what's going to happen. You never know who you're going to meet, who you're going to connect with. Just give it a shot. That's it. That's all I'll say. 

Ali
Host
57:18
That's amazing. Thank you so much, mike, and thank you everyone for tuning in. Have a good day, mike Cheers, take it easy everybody. 
That was our conversation with Mike Nauls. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as well. If you're interested to join his accountability campaign, please use the link in the show notes. Thank you again for all the support that you're bringing to this show and I hope to see you in the next episode of the Ally Show. Have a good day.