00:00
So say you are still working and your friend is laid off. Or if you're laid off and then there's a moment in your day where you start spiraling. Just imagine whatever your archetype that you resonate with right now. Maybe you're a parent and you're wanting to get a job, right? See if you can stop whatever activity you're doing and take a moment out. If you're in a public setting, go somewhere else. Then just check in and ask yourself, ooh, okay, like what part of me is activated right now? And some people it's easier to check in and see what part of your body is feeling tension in that moment. 

 00:45
And some people who are not used to locating feelings in the body might find it helpful to imagine maybe if that thought that you have of I'm gonna get laid off too, or I'm next or I'll never find another job again. 

 01:04
Hello and welcome. 

 01:05
My name is Ali. I'm your host for the Ally show. This is a show where we are sharing mental health stories and discoveries of ordinary people just like you. We are back with another episode with our great friend, Emily Shickli. If you are a fan of the show, you know that Emily was our guest for the episode two. We had a great conversation. If you haven't listened to that episode, I highly recommend going back and giving it a shot. In this episode, Emily and I are talking about a very important and hot topic of these days, layoffs. And I can imagine that a lot of us are already either impacted by it or we are in an environment that some sort of that is taking place. 

 01:51
She and I had a couple of previous conversations on that topic and what was really important for me was to bring this conversation to the show so that it hopefully brings a lot of discussions and not necessarily solutions, but some of the questions that those who are impacted in these situations should be considering. In this episode, Emily is talking about her idea of a play mindset and how she's using that in her life to look at things differently. And she leaves us with some great thoughts on how to cope with these. 

 02:31
Sort of tough situations. 

 02:32
So I highly recommend listening through the entire show and leave us your feedback and comments. If you are trying some of these techniques, I would love to hear your thoughts on it. Just a quick reminder of who Emily is beside being my great friend. Emily Shicklli is a certified life coach, yoga and meditation teacher, Reiki master shamanic healer, and a NLP, EFT and hypnosis practitioner with a masters from University of Chicago. She empowers busy human to reclaim their time, energy and magic through courses, ceremonies and coaching. Coming up this October, Emily is going to be hosting her first in person playfest, as she likes to call it. She will be sharing more information about it in the end of this show. 

 03:29
As always, I'd like to remind you that the best way to support this show is by subscribing to the Ally show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. You can also review us up to a five star review, which would help us a ton to reach the audience who may need such content. If you are suffering from any mental health issues or you feel that something is not right, please immediately contact your medical or mental health experts to get the support that you need. I'm so excited for you all to listen to this conversation. So without further ado, let's go to our second official conversation with Emily Shickli. 

 04:20
All right, we are back with Emily Shickli. Thank you so much for coming back to the show. We had such a great time in our first conversation chatting. I got so many interesting feedback about our specific episode and how people actually resonated with it. As you know, most of our listeners are folks who are busy with their tech or biotech or sort of like their corporate jobs. And it was interesting to hear, and it was kind of, like, beautiful also to hear that folks felt so close to that conversation. They kind of, like, saw themselves. They're like, oh, okay. Like, I was in that situation, too, and I never, like, thought there could be, like, so many layers to it. 

 05:04
So that's what I'm excited about, to kind of, like, continue sort of that conversation also, we recently met at our favorite coffee shop, and we had a conversation as were, like, planning for a WePaw session. We had a great conversation there about an interesting topic. I don't want to spoil it. And I'm like, I told you that. Hey, Emily, we should be having another recording, I think. I think it's about time. So thank you for saying yes to that request. I appreciate it. Excited to have you back. And I want to start this conversation with this question. Like when we chatted last time, I'm curious, what was the impact of that conversation on you? What did you, how did you leave that conversation and what have you been up to since then? 

 05:59
I'm so glad you asked that question. I love the continuity thread, too. Not only for us to reflect on that, but also for our listeners to hear it. So if you didn't have the pleasure of listening to that first conversation, I highly recommend going back and listening to it. It was gold, and in particular because we recorded it in person, and I think that was, it was definitely new for me. I'd never recorded a podcast in person, and I think it was, correct me if I'm wrong, like relatively newer for you, given who you've talked to in the past, they're not, that is correct, local. Yeah. 

 06:37
And there's so many layers of meaning to that, of being able to have a conversation like that in person in our local community, that I feel really do tie in to what we're going to talk about today in this lens of deeper connection, of celebrating that almost old school, human to human in person connection that I feel like a lot of people are craving. I've been talking to a lot of friends and clients and relatives who I've noticed are, for lack of a better word, almost like meerkats kind of popping up and realizing these various hobbies or various communities that they used to be a part of before the pandemic, and now they're really longing for that connection and especially for person. 

 07:42
So it's interesting because I feel like that conversation, trying to place it in my mind and the timeline, but I sometime around there or after there, or like right before there, hosted the ceremony that I've been stewarding in person for the first time. And it just gave me so much life. It really did. And so I have been more and more thinking about how to really celebrate local community and support not only wonderfully talented speakers like Ali here, and also the people in the community who maybe don't realize that actually you don't have to necessarily travel far to get access to that kind of connection. 

 08:33
That so much resonates with me from two ways. One is just observing what you have been doing recently, and also thanks for showing up to our WEPAW session, that was one way you applied this principle. And secondly, I think one thing that Covid, like after Covid math gave us was the opportunity to rethink the connections that we have to this world. And I think this is such a beautiful way of, like, looking back and say, you know what? Now I need to restart this connection to where I belong, or at least where I live for the time being. Some of us are nomads and we don't have any place to call home, but maybe the entire place and the entire world is home. I don't want to get to that conversation. 

 09:23
But the point being is, like, reconnecting and rethinking how we are connected to the world around us. I think that's such a beautiful word to have around us. Thank you for sharing that. I'm kind of, like, curious, and I've been thinking about how to really restart that conversation we had in the coffee shop. And I think the best way to go to it is by just reminding all of us of the world that we are living in right now. To the professionals out there, to those who are working right now, it's not like a new topic. In the past two years, we've been seeing a lot of unfortunate layoffs and changes in the corporate dynamic. This definitely comes with a price and comes with a mental health price. And as a matter of fact, this is why I care about this topic. 

 10:25
And the burden, I think, is on at least two sides in this game. One is those who are leaving that corporate or that job that they're at, which the impact can be so varied depending on their life situations. And then the second group is those who are staying in that and, like, having and tolerating all that stress of possibly losing their jobs and how to deal with that. I cannot tell you how many conversations I had in the past few months. And these conversations are just growing. Like, my friends who are listening to this conversation, they might be like, oh, yeah, we just talked to Ali last week about this topic. And yes, they are right, because the amount of these conversations are growing, the amount of worries about what happens if I get laid off in the next riff. 

 11:25
And what happens if that. What happens to this mortgage that I have, what happens to the family? And all these big painful questions that are just going to happen in a second. Like, in a second, you're not going to be in that job anymore. And so many ripple effects of that coming out. So that, I think is just like this. I wanted to define like this picture. Hopefully, that's a familiar picture. Unfortunately, that's a familiar picture for all of us. Let's start from there. 

 12:00
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that and opening with that. And I think that it absolutely ties into what were just talking about with this idea of connection, in the sense that regardless of whether you are in person, connected to your colleagues or not, and you're working remotely, connection knows no space in time. So even though were, I think it's important to name, like, even though were spouting the ideals of an in person community, connection to the physical place where you are and the people, like the bodies you can actually interact with in the 3d connection is not limited by that. And also, as humans, we have this near constant tap into our collective unconscious. 

 12:58
So when you're talking about whether or not you're the person who's still at the company, or you're the person who's laid off on a nervous system level and on an unconscious mind level, we don't actually know that we are separate from each other. I could get into the science of that, but I think there's a much more interesting conversation to be had on kind of the energetic level of it. But I do recommend, if you are curious to learn more, you can look into how mirror neurons work. You can look into all of the amazing research about ancestral and generational experiences that have been inherited, whether they're everyday experiences or traumatic experiences. And when we think about this very real and tangible situation, with layoffs, for example, and the near constant wonderings of will this happen to me? 

 14:00
You can see how because we, on an unconscious level, relate so primally to other humans who we find some kind of affinity towards, whether it's they're on the same team, they're in a similar role, or they just work for the same company where you have some rapport with them, you like them, you're friends with them. When we see other people experiencing pain and falling into, say, a time of lack in scarcity, it can feel almost the same as if it's happening directly to us on an unconscious nervous system level. And so that's what I mean by the collective unconscious, in the sense that when we see someone else who we relate to experiencing something hard, we can feel it in our bodies. And this is not just true for empaths. 

 14:58
And when we're thinking about something like a job, because of our modern world, so much of our survival hinges upon whether we have that sustainable, constant influx of money, right? And not only that, but like, if you think about, especially with larger tech companies or larger corporations that have heavily invested time, energy and resources into helping people identify as being a person who not just works at this place, but is the place where they work, right? Without naming any names, I'm sure our audience can think of some tech companies, right, that will, employees will refer to themselves as a name of company at an ER at the end, which is basically reducing your identity as a very multifaceted human being into an employee. And so you can imagine if there's all of this time, energy and resources that goes into that. 

 16:08
Of course there are like some really wonderful benefits of creating these identity markers for team collaboration and communication. I'm not saying it's all bad, but then if you take that away. What are they left? And I've had conversations with clients and prospective clients about this, where they're recently laid off. They'd worked for a company for ten plus years. They had met their partner there, they had friends there. They ate the food there, they worked out there, they saw their therapist there. They got back adjustments there. Their kids went to daycare. It's like there are so many layers and investments in the job these days, especially if you work for a company like that. And so then seeing other people or experiencing yourself being laid off immediately puts us into that dysregulated state of, oh, wow. 

 17:07
It's not just the job that a person has lost, it's their entire identity. And so, of course we would be dysregulated. Of course we would be thrown off by it. Of course we would be having these constant worries and thoughts, regardless of whether it actually happened to us or just someone we know. 

 17:26
Yeah, this, so as were saying, there's like two aspects to it I want to dig a little bit into. Like, the second one, that losing that identity and what we are hearing from friends who are working at those big companies or even smaller companies. No one is immune in the given and in the current market. And it's kind of like industry agnostic, even at this point. Like, you hear news from almost all industries that kind of, like, boomed within the last ten years, and now you see them crashing for whatever reason. That is not my expertise, but no one is immune. And you hear these conversations that, oh, then what should I be doing? And I don't think I can find another job like that. I don't think anyone would hire me in this environment. 

 18:28
I don't think I would have enough Runway to go for x month or x years without having a stable job. Even the worst news that we are hearing right now is you now started here, started seeing people who got laid off, like, late 2022, and they're getting laid off again in a matter of a year or 15 months, and they're expecting even if they find anything, they're going to be. And now for them, it becomes like this entire lack of security about their job, which is completely understandable. It's really scary. But I think the bigger scaring point behind it is that continuous change of identity. 

 19:23
As someone who jumped from companies to one another in the past, I can really understand this feeling that while every company was trying to create an identity for me, every time I was going to another company, it was breaking. I could feel like a shift inside me. I don't want to label it whether it's good or bad, but it was a burden. It was a lot. And now what's the solution? Is it too? And I don't want to just jump to a solution domain. Maybe we can start thinking about more sides of the problem. But I think what's the solution? Should we just not associate with anything? Should we just not associate with any corporate or any job that we are doing? Should we rethink how we are looking at our jobs? 

 20:14
What is it here that maybe needs to change or get improvements so that we can cope with these situations better? I don't know if you want to jump to a solution or you want to keep opening the problem, I think that's up to you. 

 20:30
Yeah, I think it's helpful to talk about the why a little bit more and flesh that out for folks. So with this example of people getting laid off and then 15 months later getting laid off again, that experience can also bring up lots of deep wounding. That on a primal human level affects the psyche and our mental health, which I think is important to talk about given we're on the ally show in the sense that the need to belong, which is also what you're speaking to with your own personal experience, is one of our basic needs as humans. We are a tribal species. We can't actually survive without each other. 

 21:30
If you think about it on a basic level, unless you are a highly skilled, one person, sustainable farmer out in the wilderness and you get all your own food, yeah, you could probably survive, but you also may lose your mental health because humans are not meant to be in isolation. We're not that type of species. And so from an understanding of that need of belonging somewhere as being so primal, it shows up as early as childhood in the sense that we crave a sense of belonging so that our needs are met. Like that is a primal need within us. And if our needs aren't met by our caregivers and our community, then we can take on certain wounding and identity markers, like, I am not enough, or there's something wrong with me and that's why I'm being rejected. 

 22:35
And then if you fast forward to being an adult and you experience repeated layoffs, that's touching on that basic wounding of, wow, there's something wrong with me. So often we turn the outside world inwards in the sense that we look at ourselves like, oh, there's something wrong with me because I am the pattern as opposed to the market is off, right. And I think there's a need for both in the sense of taking personal responsibility and also recognizing external circumstances. So I think it's important to kind of touch on that idea that belonging is a basic human need. And so then when we look at this identity piece of joining a company and taking on that identity, it's not just that capital c, big corporate is coming in and telling us to do that. 

 23:39
There's actually a basic human need to feel like you belong. And then you're spending upwards of 8 hours, maybe fewer than that, but at work and or within the realm of work, whether it's physical or virtual, and of course you want to feel like you belong. And then added to that, your life's basic needs because it's your salary source, are also at stake here. So there's this double emphasis on the need to assimilate to a new identity as someone who works at this place. And then if someone's having repeated layoffs or by choice moving different companies, yeah, of course that would be impacting you, right? So it's interesting in these conversations that I've had with people who have been laid off about now they're stripped of this identity, like what is left? 

 24:42
So if we're going to start to shift into solution territory, I think the key is to notice and become aware of this tendency and need to belong to external communities and at the same time cultivate your own internal community with yourself, your own sense of identity, your own sense of sovereignty and agency, so that you can remember that actually none of us are separate. And also you are still your own self that's apart from whatever happens at work or whatever happens with your family if you're not working. So many parents self identify as the parent as opposed to also their other multifaceted identities and can get lost in that. So I think this spans more than the work conversation. 

 25:42
And also there is that double element here with work, in the sense that it's both the need to belong and also to have your basic needs met through your salary. 

 25:56
Yeah. What it reminds me is this experience I had, and I still have since last April when I quit my job. And it was interesting, like I was at a recruitment recruiting tech company. It was an online solution for finding good candidates. And I saw things changing. And one thing that I told myself is like, your mental health is not at a good state. Do you want to be in a situation where you're also going to be exposed to more stress, that you're not built to even handle it? I know you can't, given the circumstances, or do you want to just let go of it. 

 26:47
And I think that experience of letting go was reminded to me based on what you are saying right now, I think that it was a tough decision, but it came down to this kind of like simple question, what do I want and what does work for me in that situation given my mental health and some of the other characteristics. And then when the time starts, the second thing from the same experience, when the time started, when the so called sabbatical time started, I started just seeing that and even waking up sometimes that oh, I need to do something. But oh no, it's not. I don't have to check slack anymore. I don't have to check a work email anymore. I actually don't have a meeting today. Exciting or stressed. At some point I gotta be transparent. 

 27:51
Like there are days that I went to like these kind of like depressive mood, some may define it that oh, what am I doing today? And then slowly as I started like filling up these days with having a more regular workout plan, having more meditation and having recording of meditations for my other podcasts, recording of this podcast, talking to folks like you to plan these calls and like doing things that I liked to do. Cooking healthy food. Like I can say like over 85% of the meals I ate since quit my job are healthy, so at least I didn't eat that much out anymore. And all the thing, I made everything almost at home, like spending more of the time there. It's so interesting looking back. I'm like, shit. Like I wake up and I am working, but working for myself. 

 28:46
Like I made an intentional decision to work for myself and work on myself and investing that time for me. Again, something that I heard that you are saying. And the only thing that it's interesting to see, like comparing time to time, like the delta of the time I'm spending, I'm like, how do my days even go? And then I look back and I see like, oh yeah, you're cooking for this long, you're going to gym for this time. You're doing this, you're doing that. That's like 8 hours. You're spending all that 8 hours on yourself. I mean, good for you. It's a decision you made. And now, like recently I've been starting like this feeling that lack of belonging, okay, I actually really need to belong to something. 

 29:33
I really need to have my tribe or my people to start caring about, which I'm changing that a little bit by spending more consulting time and like working with people, doing creative stuff together to make things happen. I just wanted to share this picture and to see if any of that. And of course, like, I was not laid off, but I left the job for at least for a long time. And these are the symptoms that I've been observing. Again, don't want to label them as good or bad, but like, does any of that resonate? And is that the scenario that we are all potentially can go through? 

 30:16
Yeah, absolutely resonates. And I think a few things I want to name as well, in the sense that a lot of folks who, quote, unquote, get out of the full time gig, whatever that full time gig is, will oftentimes share their story. And then people who are still in it are like, oh, well, that's the only way that I can be free. And I'll share a little bit of my own story, too, to kind of like counteract that as well. And maybe some tips that might be helpful for people to realize that actually you don't have to burn everything down in order to create more personal freedom and sovereignty. And also it can be helpful and sometimes it's necessary. Right? So there really is this both and tier. 

 31:07
It's not just like become an entrepreneur and you'll solve all your problems because it's not for everybody, you know? So I love that you shared that and kind of the waves that you navigated in your own journey. And I feel like there really is this detoxification process that happens whether it is that you get laid off, you choose to leave, or you just decide to be different, right, that you're just done with being constantly plugged into this. I'm never going to do enough. I'm never going to earn enough. I'm never going to work enough. If I work hard, then maybe I'll be rewarded, but then the rewards aren't coming. What if I'm going to lose my job, right? All of that kind of dysregulated scarcity, survival, brain messaging. 

 31:58
So I started my business in 2018, and it wasn't until 2022, February of 2022, that I actually left my full time role. And by that time I was working way more than full time with all the things happening. And yet I had this risk averse feeling come up where I felt like, oh, well, leaving corporate was so terrifying. And part of that, I think, was that there's this really kind of poetic saying that I think is helpful to name. I can't properly attribute it. I think it's Florence Scovelshin, but it's that we will choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven every time, right? In the sense that it took me a really long time to realize, oh, actually, I have done, quote, enough in my business to allow myself the permission to dream a different reality and to bring it to fruition. 

 33:22
And then, ironically, all of 2022, I was over functioning in my business about helping people overcome burnout. Because all of the ways of working from big corporations, from the kind of quote unquote, good student drama that I picked up right from childhood, were so ingrained in me that I knew I wanted something different, but I didn't know how to create the different thing. So even though I spent more time in the morning luxuriating in my meditative practices, I still felt like I was constantly working and that I needed to be constantly working. And when I wasn't working, I felt like I really should be working, especially because there was no one else working. 

 34:19
So it is amazing how unless we do an intentional detoxification process of this program, of we have to constantly be doing things, or we have to constantly be available, or we have to constantly be working to avoid scarcity. And I think that happens whether or not you leave your job or start your own business or you stay in it. And there are practices that you can do to create more spaciousness between your self identity and your work identity, which I think is kind of like what we're getting. Getting at, rather than conflating the two all the time and thinking that your worth is defined by how much you do. I think that's a really common program that I encounter both in myself and also in clients. 

 35:16
And I think it can be overwhelming to look at that like, well, this is all I've known, right? This is my familiar hell, so to speak. So how do we start to shift that? And a lot of that lies in starting with the body, right? And oftentimes we forget that our body has so much wisdom and has access to so much more wisdom than our conscious mind does. And so simple practices, like the beautiful meditations that Ali has been leading or going for a walk and actually really establishing yourself in the present. Like, it sounds cliche to just list all the self care things, but if you do it with intentionality and continue to anchor in your nervous system that, like, you deserve this because you are a human, not because you're trying to regain energy to then go work more, right? 

 36:14
There is a difference there. So in my own experience, I've found that there's this detoxification, this unraveling, deprogramming process, whatever you want to call it, before you can really access that new self identity that's either apart from work or can collaborate with your work identity, but is not synonymous with it. 

 36:36
It is interesting to see it this way, and I can attest that's how the journey has been for me too. But it's interesting to see that it's as simple as this. You got to start finding yourself. And to find yourself, you got to first start finding your body. Once you found your body, you find the connections you have to this world. You redefine those connections if needed. That connections mean the friends and the network you have around you, the places you go and spend time. Whether you used to spend a lot of time in that office, from eight in the morning, sometimes in the company, you and I, we both work sometimes. I was going to the office so early and leaving so late. That was how I was connected to that, to this work. 

 37:33
I don't have to spend all of that time there. Maybe once I found my body, once I found myself connection to myself so genuinely and simply, maybe I see that my body needs to spend more time in the nature, backpacking here sometimes, detaching sometimes, and just spend more time, I don't know, in the mountains or no, in specific countries, going to specific cities to visit my friends. Because that's what brings me joy and through the connections I found in this world. So I really love the focus on our body first because it feels like it has all the answers. I know you and I, we keep repeating this in so many other conversations, but I feel like our body has all the answers. And once we start focusing on that body, however, it works for us because it's not the same for everyone. 

 38:36
Some people find it by going doing like heavy jiu jitsu or like martial arts. Some people find it through, like yoga, some people find it through. However it is to find their body by losing weight and like, taking and figuring out medications they need to do for their specific types of things that they never paid attention to. Going to regular checkups, that's also paying attention to your body. Going to cleaning our teeth, like, as simple as that. Oftentimes being so dedicated to work, it just disconnects us from our body for a reason. 

 39:16
One other thing I wanted to call out, which I think impacts us not paying attention to our body and keep putting more on our body is like, when I think of like, my heavy working time, I feel like I was always like, trying to find and like, prove something that in my job rather than proving it in my own life to myself. Like, yes, I could be like the employee of the year. But what did it bring to me? Rather than I could be the Ali of the year for me, you know? Like, how could. How could I really take care of my body that could just make me so happy? When I look at myself and say, oh, great, you did good job. In the past year, you lost x much and gained x much muscle instead. And you feel healthier. 

 40:06
Your cholesterol level is lower. I'm so proud of you, dude. Like, we could replace that. And I think because of, like, the reward system that exists in some of the work and because of so many other things that you know better than me, we just place all those pressure on our work Persona, as you were saying, like, on our work character that we have, rather than splitting it between so many things. So that's. That's how I felt about, like, some of the things you shared. I'm curious, how was that for you? Like, how, like, once you started, actually, we can play with examples in your own journey. Once you start paying more attention to your body, what happened? 

 40:49
Yeah, I shared in the last episode what was happening when I wasn't paying attention to my body with a lot of chronic pain. And I think that especially if someone is experiencing discomfort in the body, there's this tendency to not look at it, to shut it down, to shove it away, put it in the closet, metaphorically. And I found the biggest antidote to actually being in my body is curiosity. And I find that it's actually the opposite of stress as well, because when we're in a stressed state, we don't have access to our prefrontal cortex and our creative thinking skills. We're instead focused on external circumstances. We have an external focus on survival. And when we bring in curiosity, like, oh, what's like, how am I feeling right now? 

 41:41
Just that simple question of actually asking yourself that can do wonders for getting in your body. And so for me, I feel like I began this journey of curiosity in play. And instead of putting a spotlight on whatever success supposedly meant, outward success in my business, it was more like, how can my North Star be the process of play? And that's where the real creative juice came from and also where I figured out what I actually loved. Rather than just following a blueprint that some successful entrepreneur says I have to do in my business in order to reach a certain monetary figure or whatever, or even following the corporate model, I feel like I spent so many years just, like, gobbling up information about how I quote unquote, should do business. 

 42:42
Ironically, when the whole point of starting a business, beyond making an impact, was to set myself free and create my own reality. So I think it's very common. And I think oftentimes we don't even realize we're doing it. And it took me a long time to realize that I was doing it until my body told me, hey, this is not working. Gotta slow down, girl, you know? And so I think curiosity for me was a huge antidote and this idea that I could play my way through business, through my life, and kind of approach things from this beginner's mindset, from this, like, curiosity mindset of, like, oh, how does this feel? Do I like it? Do I not like it? Do I like it later? Do I not like it ever? And then that in itself, that kind of play mindset builds self trust. 

 43:37
And when we build deeper self trust, we step more into that. I am energy, that I am consciousness of knowing who you actually are at your core as like a living, breathing, spiritual being in a human body, having a human existence. Whereas if we're not ever getting curious, were stuck in that familiar hell territory, were just the computer playing the program over and over again that weve been trained into and rewarded by following for the earlier years in our lives. So I think for me, that was the biggest internal shift, was just treating everything like a giant curiosity experiment and allowing that to show me, oh, okay, here's me, right? And here's not me. Here's me, and here's not me. Because I think when we ask ourselves this question of, like, who am I really? 

 44:39
It can be easy to fall into either old programs of who other people say you are or like an existential crisis and a dark night of the soul. So I like to treat things with a lot of, like, playful curiosity, and I find that it loosens the grip on these old programs. The other thing that I'll share too, briefly, is that in this playful experiment, I really found benefit not only of all of these body practice spiritual practices that I've talked about before, but also internal family systems. So, like, really acknowledging that there are multiple parts within me that want to different things and have different needs and maybe got stuck at certain ages of my life and are now stuck in my body. 

 45:28
And if you're listening and you're not really sure what that means, if you think about your inner child as a concept or your inner critic as a concept, which may feel more tangible and familiar to you, we also have the worker be or whatever that Persona name is, as a part of ourselves, too. And so working consciously with that part and asking, like, hey, how are you doing? You know, what do you need right now? What is it that you're wanting to do and kind of bridging. Bridging the gap between all those parts that are inside of you at any given time so that you feel a greater sense of wholeness can also help with finding that I am energy that was so beautiful. 

 46:17
And this reminded me of the last Wepaw session that we have live right now. We pause ten where were talking about, like, giving the pen to our inner child. And I used the example as I called my inner child La, which is short for and little Ali. And sometimes it's so fascinating. Little Ali has a lot of good answers to a lot of his needs. And it just became a routine for me. Now in my morning pages, if I get stuck and I need something out of the box, I'm like, hey, little Ali, what do you think? It's so interesting. As soon as I type, he has the answer, or at least. And his answers are like, very interesting. They are very simple. They're like, oh, you're looking here, look there. And it's so interesting, like, how simple and playful those answers are. 

 47:30
I just wanted to call that out. Are there any activities like this that I call that, like the morning pages. Are there any other activities that you would recommend for folks to kind of like in this journey that they have, whether they lost their job, whether they quit intentionally and for other reasons or no, whether they're still at work and they're just battling with these feelings and lack of connection to this world per se, or lack of connection to themselves because of all this stress? Are there any kind of, like, practices that you would recommend to help bringing those inner conversations out in a very organized way so it's not overwhelming? I know therapy is one solution, but we know everybody is right now. 

 48:18
If they're laid off, they are applying and they're doing this, doing that, they may say, Ali, Emily, we don't have time for therapy. We don't have money for therapy. Are there any activities that we can introduce to our folks to kind of, like, connect to that inner child, inner Personas, not just the inner child. 

 48:38
Yes, absolutely. And I loved that Wii Paws episode that you did. So if y'all haven't experienced all these magic about being an artist, highly recommend you check it out. It's fun. Yeah. So this is a great question. So let's maybe pick someone, one of these people, fictitiously. So say you are still working and your friend is laid off or your teammates are laid off and you're wondering and you're kind of spiraling. Or if you're laid off and then there's a moment in your day where you start spiraling, right? So just imagine whatever your archetype that you resonate with right now. Maybe you're a parent and you're wanting to get a job, right? And you're spiraling. Whatever it is, see if you can stop whatever activity you're doing and take a moment out. So if you're in a public setting, go somewhere else. 

 49:41
It could be a bathroom stall. It doesn't have to be this whole magical meditation space. You don't have to wait till the end of the day and then just check in and ask yourself, ooh, okay, like, what part of me is activated right now? Like, what part of me is saying those things? And some people, it's easier to check in and see what part of your body is feeling tension in that moment. And some people who are not used to locating feelings in the body might find it helpful to imagine maybe if that thought that you have of, like, I'm going to get laid off, too, or I'm next, or I'll never find another job again, ask, what is the age of that part of you that's asking that question? 

 50:34
And then start to form either a picture in your mind's eye or if you're not super into visualization, you can just kind of imagine that part of you and see if you can connect with them and ask, like, oh, you know, sweet part. Or, you know, whatever you want to call, like, little Ali, little Emily. Like, I see you. I see that you're really having a hard time right now. Yeah, it's scary, right? And so there's this, like, validation that's needed to acknowledge the feeling, because so often when we shove it down, actually, it just makes it worse. So validating that feeling that the part is happening, maybe naming it so it's not just swirling around in your brain and then asking, what do you need to feel safe right now? And maybe safe isn't the word that resonates. Maybe it's calm. 

 51:35
What do you need to feel at peace with this? Or what do you need to feel like you're being heard finally, right? Whatever it is that part of you is really yearning for and then honor that, right? So maybe it's like I need to go for a walk, or maybe it's like I need to take a nap when I get home, or maybe it's, I need to not read the news or turn off my phone for an hour or meditate for two minutes. And then honoring that need as opposed to shutting it down, is going to do wonders for healing not only your relationship to yourself, but also yourself in entirety as well. And then if you're feeling really activated, it can be helpful to do some kind of, like, nervous system regulating practice. 

 52:27
So if you're in fight, something like shaking can be really helpful. Or you can get like a. If you're at home and have space, you can get a towel wet and, like, beat the wall. It's really satisfying. Or, like, you know, punch a pillow is kind of the cliche. You can do a silent scream or something like that. And if you're in flight, like, if you're feeling, like, really anxious thoughts, that bilateral tapping that I think we taught in the last episode can be really helpful. Where you cross your arms over your chest and you tap your right hand on your left shoulder and your left hand on your right shoulder repeatedly just to calm your nervous system can be really helpful. And same thing. If you're in freeze, you can also do, like, an eye open meditation or wrap yourself in a blanket. 

 53:14
And if you're in fawn, maybe it's like telling someone who feels safe what you actually need, as opposed to shutting that voice down, which can happen so frequently when we're in fawn. So just kind of this process of stopping and asking yourself, like, getting curious, like, huh, what part of me is activated right now? What do they need? How can I validate them and meet that need and then come back to a regulated state so that you have access to your full self after that practice, and it doesn't have to take a long time. Like, sometimes people are like, I don't have time to feel my feelings. And I'm like, yeah, that's part of being human. And that's the lie of being human, is that we think we don't have time to feel our feelings, but they're being felt regardless. 

 54:11
And if you look at the science, it actually, each emotion is a 92nd biochemical reaction. So if you give yourself permission to actually fully feel that feeling without attaching a story to it will move through you. So it doesn't have to be like a full hour. You can do this in just a couple minutes, and it will do wonders. And if it's a really big feeling, of course you want to make sure that you have that space and time to regulate afterwards and take care of yourself and reach out to support if needed. 

 54:44
Thank you so much. This was a thorough answer to my question, and it was kind of, like, meditative to me. Before this call, I told you that I'm trying to take a no meeting June plan. And the reason that I was thinking of that is, like, I was just feeling that in the past few months, since I left my job, I've been, like, too much exposed, as I said earlier. So, like, having all these conversations, having for a reason, for a very good reason. But, like, my calendar started, like, getting full. I was, like, spending a lot of time with friends and others and just hearing their thoughts, like, trying to answer so many questions. I was, like, going to a lot of, like, therapy sessions and looking for answers to so many things or looking for better questions. 

 55:44
And I just felt like, in the past few days, I just felt maybe I need to pause all of this because it's just now overwhelming. I need a time of communicating. And folks who know me, they know that I love chatting, but maybe it's time to pause chatting. And how do you think of these more of an extreme cuts? Like, I know folks who, like, cut off social media for a month or don't do something for a month, or I know somebody who's going to woods for a few weeks and just, like, cutting connections. How do you think about, like, these more of a little bit of an extreme. 

 56:28
And I know it's not doable for a lot of folks, given their circumstances and things that they deal with the family, but is there any value in doing these things and what's the best way to prep for them, if any? 

 56:41
Love that shift. And I love that you're drinking your own medicine and taking your own pause. So naming that, celebrating that's really important and surprisingly harder to do than we like to admit. And with regards to this idea of, like, a more drastic cut, or. Or I should say maybe an intentional cut, it doesn't necessarily have to be drastic. That's more of, like, a subjective reality. I think it can. I think it can be different for each person. So for me personally, I don't engage with the news, which is kind of maybe a vulnerable thing to say and a very privileged thing to say. I still receive information about current events, but it's through a filter. Another person, my lovely partner. 

 57:34
And that's intentional because if my energy body is filled up with that information constantly as a sensitive person, I'm not able to actually create or serve in the way that I'm meant to. And I think, you know, I've had clients who have a hard time letting go of, say, social media. And especially with these turbulent times, that can be really dysregulating for the nervous system. And we don't even need to tell you all about the dopamine hits, that using this kind of technology in that way constantly can give us and kind of perpetuate us. 

 58:15
And so if you look at different organizations that have been really supportive for people who have this need to engage with something, whether it's technology or tv or constant meetings or constant work, right, this kind of, like, compulsion, if you will, it can be really helpful to just take a reset. And if you think about what were talking about with this detoxification process, I don't think I could have done that if I still was overworking both at my employee role and also in my business. Because when our mind is busy doing the same thing and stuck into the same program, then we don't need to look closely, right? We don't need to get curious. And cultivating that curiosity and play mindset is really challenging in the noise of the everyday, because you need to belong and you need to make your needs be met. 

 59:18
You gotta make those basic needs. And so I think there's a lot of value with taking a reset. Whether it's a month of no meetings for you or I'm going to go to a cabin in the woods for three weeks, which I'm very excited about, only one of those weeks will be like a complete solo retreat for creative purposes. But I'll be in a completely different environment than I'm in right now. And I think there's something. I don't know, maybe this sounds too wild and out there, but there's almost something primal about it that I feel. It's this. Whether it's an external or an inner migration, it's almost like a migratory experience. 

 01:00:09
If you think about even the seasonality here with our school system in, you know, the west, it's like there's a summer break, because the mind needs a break, and people want to travel and go do different things and get out, right? And so I think there's something really familiar in a way of, like, choosing an extreme. And also, honestly, it makes boundaries a little bit easier. Right. It's almost easier to decide, I'm not going to look at social media for a month, then I'm only going to look at social media for five minutes every day. Right. There's something that's clear cut about whether it's a retreat or a no. I'm not going to do this thing or yes, I'm going to do this thing. There's a reason why challenges are so just irresistible and tasty to humans because it has this finite period. 

 01:01:08
We get this adrenaline rush, we get this, like, focus, right? We've set these clear boundaries. There's some kind of accountability at play. And so I think there's absolutely a benefit. And I think the most important thing, even beyond just prepping for it, is like integration. Because so many times, especially in just our everyday lives, we'll go and we'll travel somewhere and we'll be like a completely different person with our vacation mindset and then come back home and. And think everything's going to be different. But it just hits play again. So I think it's thinking about, well, how do you integrate the pause? So just asking you on the spot, Ali, what do you think? And just anticipating what do you think for you is kind of the integration from a no meeting month? 

 01:02:04
Is it just that this is a pause and you're going to press play again and it's going to go back to how it was? Or do you anticipate maybe some things coming out of the pause that then invite you to change the pace? 

 01:02:17
Yeah. I want to start by calling out how this setting is familiar, where separation, initiation and return. It's like we are consistently living our own hero journey. Thanks to Joseph Campbell for extracting this simple yet super important pattern. And I think, like, my idea is like, the way we are living it is. It's not just a one time. We don't have like one hero's journey. For some, this can happen on a weekly basis or this can happen even shorter or longer. And I think this is, for me, it's one of those heroes journey where I need to separate from the comfortable. I need to get a little bit uncomfortable by not having necessarily the conversations that seem so comfortable and easy to me, the conversations that I can be great at it and like get the applause or get the feedback that I need. 

 01:03:24
I need to live the question. And I think that's where my calling is as far as like, okay, maybe you need to then just figure out your questions. Maybe you need to set up your questions better before going again, coming back with good questions and receive answers. So I think what I will be coming back, hopefully in my return, in this initiation, I'm looking for better questions. And hopefully when I come back, it's a. It doesn't mean there's going to be less meetings, but I think meeting is just one of those tools that I've been using to consistently get answers. I'm kind of like cutting the process to receive answers so efficiently, like these calls. 

 01:04:12
As you know, I told you and all my other guests and friends that these are so valuable calls for me to get answers so quickly, so efficiently and in such a lovely setting. But by cutting some of these, I'm not exposing myself to answers anymore. Then that forces me to ask better questions, come up with new set of questions and live those questions and come back. Maybe that means meetings as usual. Maybe that means meetings in a different setting. I only meet with people in person or I don't know what. What's going to change. But I think, like, having that open mind after this very important initiation for me is a must so I can have a useful return more than anyone for myself. 

 01:05:00
Beautiful. I love that idea of having an intention of coming up with better questions, and that questions in and of themselves are answers. 

 01:05:12
That's how I feel about it. And that's been theme that I've been following in the past few weeks because oftentimes I thought I have the answers to everything. And one of the things that I'm also, like, discovering in my therapy is, like, some of the rush that I have to always get to answer. Maybe. Maybe that's the kind of, like, blocker for me to figure out Ali better. So as part of this journey, I think maybe it's time to pay attention more to the questions, relive the questions, rethink the questions and so on. So hopefully this makes sense. If not, like when I'm back, I have more to say. So the good thing is, like, when we are recording this episode is going to go live in June. I have another recording for early July. 

 01:06:04
So I'm still going to have the content to tell some of this story. We'll see what happens then. I want to also be so thankful of this conversation to you. Emily, thank you so much for coming back to the show. This was so great to have you, and it's always joy for me to chat with you as a friend. Thank you for joining us again. Any final thoughts? Anything that you want to share with our audience? We would love to hear it. 

 01:06:37
Yeah. So I can't share too many details, which is maybe the best, but I have reserved a space and I'm going to be hosting a one and a half day experience with guest speakers. And theme is play. And so I have, like, a working title, which is playfest that maybe gives some of the energy of it. 

 01:07:07
I love that. 

 01:07:08
Yeah. And the main intent behind it is exactly what we're talking about. It's this antidote to what I call grid energy, of being plugged into all of these old mindsets, of having to constantly do and work and seek approval. And because I've personally, as I mentioned, found so much benefit to this curiosity and play based mindset, not only for my own nervous system and capacity to explore unfamiliar territory, and also to discover who I really am and what lights me up. And I feel like this is really a very much needed experience. And also I have some beautiful teachers around this theme that I want to highlight as well. If you're in the Bay Area, save the dates, October 19 and 20th, it is happening. Details pending. Yes, and I'm very excited about it. 

 01:08:11
It'll be in Redwood City, so right in the middle of the peninsula. The other idea that is part of it is it's. There are so many people, I feel on the peninsula who feel like they have to go to the city or the East Bay in order to access this kind of play, this kind of experiment and exploration of self. And I don't think that has to be true. And I think that there really is a need for it, especially for folks in the Bay area and especially during this time. And all are welcome, too. So if you want to make it a trip and you don't live here, come on out. It's going to be a good time. So, yeah, I'm excited about that. 

 01:08:57
Thank you so much for sharing that. And I will share links to your website. And when we have your event link, we'll also add it both to the show note and I will share it on whatever social and our newsletters so folks can get more details on it. Thank you so much. Again, is there any other final thoughts? Anything else about the conversation? Anything you want to leave our audience with? Because I know you always have, like, very good little tips to throw here and there that are super helpful. 

 01:09:31
The last sound bite. Such pressure. I'm joking. Yeah. I think the biggest thing is I would encourage you to start to get curious about where this grid energy is most prominent in your life. And that might be a specific place, like a physical place, or it might be a place in your body, or it might be a thought structure that keeps repeating. But really, that first step of curiosity can then open you up to a different experience, but without that curious mindset or without taking that pause, whether it's a month long pause of not talking to people in meetings or being in a cabin in the woods or 2 seconds in your day. There's so much that can happen in the silence when you get that deeper connection to yourself and get curious about it. So I would say start there. 

 01:10:36
Start there and see what happens. And if you need support, we're here for you. Definitely let us know what you thought of this conversation. I'm so curious and always open to continuing talking to people. Yeah. Enjoy the pause, stay curious. 

 01:10:52
I love that. Enjoy the pause, stay curious. And I am so thankful for you to be part of this community and consistently bringing all the great tips and gifts I would call them always. I love that a lot of the folks within our community already connected to you and I know you have conversations. This is such a joy for me to see how this bridging happens and you're all so connected and helping each other. So thank you again. Thanks everyone who have been tuning into this conversation thus far and I hope to see you again on the show Emily and have a great day. 

 01:11:31
Thank you. Such a pleasure to be back. Thanks everybody for listening as well. Take care. 

 01:11:42
That was our conversation with Emily Shickli. Connect with Emily on Instagram to continue this conversation. Also check out on her website for ways to work together, including her upcoming Bay Area in person events like October 19 and 20th in Raffle City Playfest that she mentioned at the end of the episode. I will make sure to leave you guys link in the show notes that event will feature guest speakers and experiences to help folks remember their power and freedom through play. If you stayed this long with us, I would like to remind you that the best way to support this show is by subscribing to our Spotify, YouTube and Apple Podcast Channel or share us with your friends. This would be the best way for us to reach the audience who may need such content. 

 01:12:32
Content thanks again and see you on the next episode of the Ally show.